How does one get such a job? Options

[Kionon]

I've been lurking in this sub forum since I joined, and I have to say, I am still confused: how does one get a public school job?

Furthermore, I hear a lot about elementary schools, but my expertise is in older students? Is it a meritocracy, or is it a seniority based system? I've also been told by a few GEPIK instructors I know that they could get me a job if I was willing to leave my current job. I'm not willing to leave it, especially as that appears, from what I understand, to be completely illegal... What's going on?

[Turlbo]

The city of Busan is divided into six districts for education, this covers the elementary and middle schools. Perhaps this should actually be seven district since there is a separate one just for high schools, covering the whole of Busan. The reason I believe it is handle this way is because of the test which the students take for entering high school. Therefore you should do just like I did and go to the Central Education office, which can by reached on foot from Yangjeong Station #121, Orange Line. You will be ask your preference as to what level. Also it will be understood if you are under a present contract since this is a government operation.

There is a website for EPIK. However there could still be problems such as downloading forms and you may have other questions than what are entertained there. In the office of course they can be very precise with you and things will most likely move faster.

This post has been edited by Turlbo: Apr 5 2008, 03:02 PM

[Turlbo]

Kionon,

In my last post perhaps I should have been a little more clear. Therefore I will continue here. Who these GEPIK instructors are I do not know and am not really sure what is meant by 'get you a job', but can tell you this, if these are foreigners then they do not have the authority to put you on the payroll. This is why you should just go to the office where you can meet the authority, also this way there will be more possibilities than just one school.

[Kionon]

Kionon,

In my last post perhaps I should have been a little more clear. Therefore I will continue here. Who these GEPIK instructors are I do not know and am not really sure what is meant by 'get you a job', but can tell you this, if these are foreigners then they do not have the authority to put you on the payroll. This is why you should just go to the office where you can meet the authority, also this way there will be more possibilities than just one school.

It all seemed fishy to me. These are foreigners, yes. And what they told me was that they knew who to talk to if I wanted a job rather quickly. I was more concerned with the fact that I'm only not even halfway through my hagwon contract. I don't want to do anything illegal, but when I mentioned this, the instructors assured me that it would not be a problem. From everything I have read and discussed here as well as at efl-law, this sure seems like I'm missing something. Feels to me like something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and I'd rather not have immigration on my back. My hagwon has so far been a good one. Business is business, and if the GEPIK route is better and legally mine to pursue, then I want to consider it, but I have no desire to screw over myself or my hagwon by testing boundaries I have no business testing.

[Oscar]

Given the state of Epik/Gepik and there goals as far as number of teachers in schools it wouldn't surprise me if all your friends had to do was call their district supervisor and say "hey, I have a buddy who wants a job".

As for leaving your current employment you will need a letter of release to get a new visa that your boss is under no obligation to give you. So in order to change jobs you will need to come to an amicable agreement with your present boss.

There has been talk on EFL-Law of a people no longer being able to change jobs until they have worked there for 9 months. This is a new rule and as far as I know unconfirmed, but if you are thinking of changing jobs it would be worth a personal visit to the local immigration office (or the local immigration office of the area you intend to work in) to ask them exactly what they will require for you to change jobs.

If you have a marriage visa or a Kyopo visa then you don't need to worry about any of this, you cna leave your job any time or to be nice and avoid possible (although improbable) legal action give your boss the required notice (usually 30 days) that you are leaving.

[Kionon]

Given the state of Epik/Gepik and there goals as far as number of teachers in schools it wouldn't surprise me if all your friends had to do was call their district supervisor and say "hey, I have a buddy who wants a job".

That's essentially what they told me they could do.

As for leaving your current employment you will need a letter of release to get a new visa that your boss is under no obligation to give you. So in order to change jobs you will need to come to an amicable agreement with your present boss.

This is what I thought, but the individuals in question said it wasn't a big deal. Well, I have to be honest. I'm fairly certain that a letter of release would not be granted due to situations outside of my control. I have an amicable relationship with my bosses, however, the other native teacher leaves this month, and I have heard nothing about him being replaced. I doubt they would let me leave while they're already searching for a replacement. After a new teacher is settled in, I'd consider it my plausible. Also, if I had a replacement ready, that might be something too.

There has been talk on EFL-Law of a people no longer being able to change jobs until they have worked there for 9 months. This is a new rule and as far as I know unconfirmed, but if you are thinking of changing jobs it would be worth a personal visit to the local immigration office (or the local immigration office of the area you intend to work in) to ask them exactly what they will require for you to change jobs.

I think this is not true, at least not true in my area. I know several native teachers who have changed jobs of recent without fulfilling nine months of their contract. Or if it is true, immigration is being very lackadaisical about it. Somrthing about Ilsan-gu being like the hagwon capital of Korea or something. Jobs are everywhere- and so are native teachers. I'll still look into it though.

If you have a marriage visa or a Kyopo visa then you don't need to worry about any of this, you cna leave your job any time or to be nice and avoid possible (although improbable) legal action give your boss the required notice (usually 30 days) that you are leaving.

Nope, doesn't apply to me.

I do want to make it clear the only reason I am considering changing jobs at all is because I specifically accepted this job because I prefer to work with older students, and was told I would be doing so the majority of my time. Middle schoolers at least. Recently, however, my classes have shifted. I have only four middle school classes, and have several elementary starter classes, with the rest of the classes being more advanced elementary school students. That's not my skillset. It want to keep working with teenagers. That's what my limited experience teaching was like in America, and my experiences here have confirmed it. So, business is business, and although the contract was not this specific about grade level, I still feel that I was promised something that has so far not been accurate. Otherwise this is a good school, my bosses aren't nearly as shady as I keep hearing many others are, and the money is good. I've never been paid less than 2.1Million, nad I have twice in four months received more than that. I also still have my lawfully required 10 days vacation I have not used yet. For someone who likes more of a mix of students, this is a good job. It just isn't the right fit for me.

[Kionon]

Hrm. Bad news today, the school is not looking to hire another native teacher. This coupled with a few other recent oddities seem to suggest that the school may be in peril. Today I asked about vacation. I have ten days as legally allowed, as stated, that I have not used, and I have a wedding to go to on June 21st. The only answer I received was "well, we'll see, with you being the only native teacher, we may not be able to give you vacation." Uh. What? If this is true, what does this mean, should I definitely be looking for another job here?

[Red Wiggler]

Last year I worked for Avalon English Academy in Bundang. I contacted my same recruiter and asked for a public school position in Busan. Within 6 weeks I had started my new job. They likely won't be hiring until the school term ends though, but it's a good idea to get your foot in the door early.

[Kionon]

It's very much a moot point now, as I have a job with a public junior high in Japan starting next week.

[Oscar]

Just out of interest, how easy was that to hook up? and what are the conditions? Specifically hours worked, hours you have to attend and vacation, how does it compare to EPIK in Korea. (if you don't Epiks work about 20 hours give or take, have to be at school from 9 to 4 (ish) and technically get 10 days vacation although depending on the school it could be up to 3 or 4 months.)

[Kionon]

Pretty much the same.

JET isn't the only game in town anymore, largely because the Japanese found out that the no-experience, dancing monkey newbie really didn't work. Especially since JET has this absolute hard-on about people not knowing how to speak Japanese (which I do), unless you'll be placed in a government position, and then you must be almost native-level fluent (which I'm not). JET turned me down two years ago, and it was primarily because my Japanese was too good, but yet not good enough. So JET has a lot of competition from other competing programs. Capitalism and all that. Anyhow, to answer your questions specifically:

I began applying three weeks ago, roughly. I actually had three offers. One for a junior high in Moroyama, a boonies town north west of Tokyo. I turned it down because they wanted me to start May 1st. Then there was one in "somewhere" in Tokyo. I turned it down. Somewhere didn't sound like a solid game plan to me. I accepted a position in Fukuchiyama, an 80,000 person suburb of Kyoto that reminds me a lot of the suburb of Dallas I grew up in. Similar population, similar proximity to a major city, etc. Also it comes with apartment and car. I took that one.

Now, I would say it was fairly easy for me, but I had these offers for three reasons:

* I have qualifications for teaching in my home country (I do not have certification, but I do have the documentation to prove I could acquire a teaching certification from the State of Texas, if I chose to. Certain classes I had to take in college, and special tests I had to take. If I moved back to the states right now, I would be teaching by August at the junior high or high school level).

* This experience in Korea. Since JET has proven to only work in some situations, many competing programs specifically look for non-newbies as much as they can, so that the teacher doesn't have as strong of culture shock, etc, and knows what it's like to teach in a foreign country. They all still get overseas applications and do hire from our home countries on a fairly regular basis, but really prefer teaching experience abroad when they can get it.

* I speak enough Japanese to be considered functional in the language. I can't carry on complex socio-political, religious, or metaphysical conversations of the type we all know I enjoy, but I can ask and tell the basic who, what, where, why, when, and how. My sentence patterns are childish and simplistic, and I'm not good with conditionals or modifiers or even past tense, but my Japanese is "serviceable." And this goes a long way to making other teachers and staff feel more comfortable, as opposed to the gaijin that shows up with no idea how the say the most basic of things.

As for the work schedule, it can vary a lot too. My contract with the Kyoto Prefecture Board of Education says this:

Up to 28 hours a week teaching (but likely less). After 28 hours, overtime kicks in. Some BoEs require "office hours." Mine does not. I am expected to be involved, and attend field days, and school festivals, and maybe sponsor an English club or help with another club. What have you. I doubt I'll be going over the 28 hours. All of that is paid time, and if it does, I get overtime. Honestly, these are things I want to do. The responsibilities are the same as my Japanese coworkers. I'm a teacher. At least according to the contract (we'll see what the reality is), I am being treated as one.

Ten days legally required, plus all national holidays. In reality, much more. The entire month of August is summer vacation for Japanese public schools, and I get it all off, with pay. I believe it comes out to more than six weeks total for the year.

Same schedule, I am required to teach from 8:30 to 4:30 PM, M-F. However, I will have off periods where I don't have classes during the day.

[penwickpark]

I've been lurking in this sub forum since I joined, and I have to say, I am still confused: how does one get a public school job?

Furthermore, I hear a lot about elementary schools, but my expertise is in older students? Is it a meritocracy, or is it a seniority based system? I've also been told by a few GEPIK instructors I know that they could get me a job if I was willing to leave my current job. I'm not willing to leave it, especially as that appears, from what I understand, to be completely illegal... What's going on?

I hope you found the right info on your dilemma, which brings me to a related question for you. I am currently looking into ESL jobs and have heard many negative opinions of hogwans. I have little experience teaching uni age students in Toronto where I am now. I have no experience with kids, but I think it could be a fresh challenge. What are your general thoughts? Would you recommend going the public school route after your hogwan days? I don't want to deal with contract disputes and split shifts and the like. I wish I was less skeptical, it is just the result of reading some ESL bloggers of late. I am trying to form a balanced opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts

p

[penwickpark]

Kionon,

JET seems to get a lot of respect in the industry. I have applied but hardly have basic Japanese ability. How strong do you reckon your Japanese has to be for an ALT position? Is it an ALT job that you have?

Thanks

p

[Turlbo]

Kionon,

JET seems to get a lot of respect in the industry. I have applied but hardly have basic Japanese ability. How strong do you reckon your Japanese has to be for an ALT position? Is it an ALT job that you have?

Thanks

p

Now I do not have any experience with JET but from talking with those who have the language of the host country was not a requirement. That is same for here in Korea.

[penwickpark]

Now I do not have any experience with JET but from talking with those who have the language of the host country was not a requirement. That is same for here in Korea.

Turlbo,

Thanks, you're right about the language requirement. I just figure JET will take every gaijin they can find that has studied or speaks Japanese, and then the rest of us will fight it out for the rest of the ALT jobs; it makes sense really. Kionon made a good point about JET. Since ALTs work with Japanese teachers and admin people, it only makes sense that they would feel more comfortable speaking in Japanese.

Fingers crossed, if I get an interview I will try and impress them (fat chance) with my limited polite Japanese phrases and my knowledge of Japanese writers and film makers. What can ya do?

Turlbo, are your experiences teaching in public schools in Korea?

[Turlbo]

Turlbo, are your experiences teaching in public schools in Korea?
[/quote]

PenwickPark, Thank you for asking a very specific question. I have been teaching in Korea for 12 years, the last four have been with the public schools in Busan. Prior to this I did just about ever other kind of job which is offered here for a NEST, and two of those years were in a national or public university.

[Turlbo]

Turlbo,

Thanks, you're right about the language requirement. I just figure JET will take every gaijin they can find that has studied or speaks Japanese, and then the rest of us will fight it out for the rest of the ALT jobs; it makes sense really. Kionon made a good point about JET. Since ALTs work with Japanese teachers and admin people, it only makes sense that they would feel more comfortable speaking in Japanese.

Fingers crossed, if I get an interview I will try and impress them (fat chance) with my limited polite Japanese phrases and my knowledge of Japanese writers and film makers. What can ya do?

Turlbo, are your experiences teaching in public schools in Korea?

Sorry but I did not see your post until now. I taught in Korea for twelve years and the last four were in public schools.

[katan-ko]

Sorry but I did not see your post until now. I taught in Korea for twelve years and the last four were in public schools.

Hi I wish I had gone to Japan instead of South Korea. I had the worst possible case scenario for teaching and was sick
for months when I returned. I have lived near Japan until 1999, speak Japanese and wish to teach abroad. What
is the address of your school? I also worked for a Japanese English newspaper.Thanks Katan-ko

[irrerve09]

Ive started reviewing for a website and feel at a slight disadvantage, since I can only review it well after its come out on DVD.

So how does someone get screener and advance copies liike the reviewers get?